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National Register of Sacked People - for New Bosses To Check - MoneySavingExpert.com Forums
A database is going live at the end of this month where employers can check potential employees to see if they've been sacked from a previous job.
Even where no charges were brought:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7389547.stm
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It is actually just to check whether a potential employee has been accused of:
* Theft or attempted theft of money, merchandise or property from company, suppliers or customers
* Falsification or forgery of documents
* Fraudulently obtaining money, services or information
* Damaging company property
There is also the option for the individual to apply to the ICO if incorrect information is held.
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That's not quite accurate:
The system holds details of individuals who have been dismissed (whether prosecuted or otherwise) or left the company whilst under suspicion of:
Theft or attempted theft of money, merchandise or property from the Company, its suppliers, staff or customers.
Falsification or forgery of documents.
Fraudulent acts resulting in the obtaining or intention of obtaining money, assets, services or information which would otherwise be denied
Causing a loss to the company or another party (eg Supplier)
Causing damage to Company property.
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Quote: : It is actually just to check whether a potential employee has been accused of:
* Theft or attempted theft of money, merchandise or property from company, suppliers or customers
* Falsification or forgery of documents
* Fraudulently obtaining money, services or information
* Damaging company property
There is also the option for the individual to apply to the ICO if incorrect information is held.
Being accused of doesn't always have a basis.
I would support it if it were even as low as "charged with", but if a boss says you did something and sacks you then it would be wrong to be on the register if the boss was really sacking you because they or somebody else did it and you had no knowledge.
There might be an option, but you might never know you are on the list, or that there IS a list, or that they looked.
They might be checking a potential short-list before inviting to interview.
And if you don't get the job because they check after interview, you'd still never know you were on the list, there was a list, they used the list.
If you get a "Sorry, but no thanks" letter that's it.
You never know why.
You just accept that somebody else got it and they were better suited.
You could sit unemployed for months/years (at financial loss to yourself) never knowing you were on the list erroneously.
What would be the claims procedure if you applied for 20 jobs and got turned down for them all, then took a job at £5k/year less because it was the only offer you got...
Then somehow, a few years later found out you were on the list but it wasn't EVEN you?
Or just a complete lie and you weren't sacked at all really.
Etc etc
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Quote: : Being accused of doesn't always have a basis.
I would support it if it were even as low as "charged with", but if a boss says you did something and sacks you then it would be wrong to be on the register if the boss was really sacking you because they or somebody else did it and you had no knowledge.
There might be an option, but you might never know you are on the list, or that there IS a list, or that they looked.
They might be checking a potential short-list before inviting to interview.
And if you don't get the job because they check after interview, you'd still never know you were on the list, there was a list, they used the list.
If you get a "Sorry, but no thanks" letter that's it.
You never know why.
You just accept that somebody else got it and they were better suited.
You could sit unemployed for months/years (at financial loss to yourself) never knowing you were on the list erroneously.
What would be the claims procedure if you applied for 20 jobs and got turned down for them all, then took a job at £5k/year less because it was the only offer you got...
Then somehow, a few years later found out you were on the list but it wasn't EVEN you?
Or just a complete lie and you weren't sacked at all really.
Etc etc Hence why you can apply to the ICO to have information amended/ removed.
As the scheme is being run by a private organisation, it would be relatively easy to sue both the person giving the information (the previous employer) and the person holding the information (the organisation running the database).
Surely this is information that would just be given in references?
Therefore the only people that will be caught out are those that miss out employers on their cv/ application form.
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Quote: : Hence why you can apply to the ICO to have information amended/ removed.
As the scheme is being run by a private organisation, it would be relatively easy to sue both the person giving the information (the previous employer) and the person holding the information (the organisation running the database).
Surely this is information that would just be given in references?
Therefore the only people that will be caught out are those that miss out employers on their cv/ application form.
The thing is, you might never know you're on the register.
Yes, the information would be given in references, except 2-3 employers down the line they might not even be asked.
Many references (even if taken up as I've rarely had them taken) are only "1-2 employers, one of which must be your last one + a personal reference".
I've never been sacked nor done any of the offences.
I just see the injustice it could cause to people who have no idea it exists and who have been wronged by some bad manager in the past who add them to the list out of spite.
Nobody's going to write to you to say "we didn't invite you for interview because according to this list you're a thieving nomad" or "you didn't get the job because the list says your a dodgy thieving sort"
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Rather worrying- is this allowed under Data Protection?
And do the 'sackee's get any right to reply / amend false or malicious info?
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Thanks for making me aware...I can see what they are trying to do but have we not had enough instances of abuses of information and power.
This is so one-sided and without appeal so far as I can see.
It won't provide the certainty it seeks but simply cause more confusion and mistrust.
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Quote: : rather worrying- is this allowed under Data Protection?
And do the 'sackee's get any right to reply / amend false or malicious info?
You can be removed.
But are you on it?
You might be on it already ....
I know I am 110% definitely NOT on it.
. . or am I?
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Maybe I see more in this than others because all my working experience has been for small companies.
If you're asked to leave, you go.
No unions, no tribunals.
No real way to argue back.
You just leave.
It seems here a lot of people are working for large companies and know all about complaining, procedures, etc etc.
This stuff is completely alien to me.
So, strip away the protections of large companies, tribunals, unions.
Strip away people's knowing that they can complain, about what, how to go about it ...
And you've left with a large chunk of the hard working population that "just get on with it".
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Quote: : Maybe I see more in this than others because all my working experience has been for small companies.
If you're asked to leave, you go.
No unions, no tribunals.
No real way to argue back.
You just leave.
It seems here a lot of people are working for large companies and know all about complaining, procedures, etc etc.
This stuff is completely alien to me.
So, strip away the protections of large companies, tribunals, unions.
Strip away people's knowing that they can complain, about what, how to go about it ...
And you've left with a large chunk of the hard working population that "just get on with it".
Employment protection legislation applies to both large and small organisations, as does your choice of whether or not to belong to a union.
I'm sure that many people act as you say out of ignorance but, hopefully, information offered by sites like this will enable staff to know and understand their rights.
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Of course, you're right ObutW.
However, my experience is exactly the same as PasturesNew.
Most of my experience over the last 12 or so years has been in the SME sector (I worked for huge companies before that) and I'm really quite shocked at some of the practices I uncover.
No real policies or procedures, people dismissed (and hired!) on a whim, scant regard to some basic human rights never mind health and safety...
I could go on and on.
Oh, and many of them have Investors in People status!!
I'm in two minds about this.
It could protect small companies from being ripped off by dishonest employees, but could totally compromise the position of job applicants if malicious or incorrect information was entered.
(Look how many errors you find on your credit file!
And how many people actually check it?)
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Quote: : Of course, you're right ObutW.
However, my experience is exactly the same as PasturesNew.
Most of my experience over the last 12 or so years has been in the SME sector (I worked for huge companies before that) and I'm really quite shocked at some of the practices I uncover.
No real policies or procedures, people dismissed (and hired!) on a whim, scant regard to some basic human rights never mind health and safety...
I could go on and on.
Oh, and many of them have Investors in People status!!
Oh, I know it happens, but the protection is there if people knew about it and would use it.
Don't get me started on Investors in People!!
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It doesn't matter.
Already the lawyers have said they'll be able to have a field day with this.
Basically, private lawsuits filing for defamation of character.
The route they intend for their clients is not only to target the companies making the entries but the company running it and the ISP of the company.
And if the companies don't tell their staff they've made the entry, the Data Protection Registrar can fine them too.
I doubt it'll last long under the weight of bad publicity and several very expensive lawsuits.
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I hope it won't last long.
The government is to blame for this, with its efforts to grab all personal data going and its push for huge databases.
(Not to mention its laxness with the data it already possesses.) It encourages other organisations to follow suit.
Google no2id for further information, and to have your hair stand on end when you realise exactly how bad it has got without most people realising it!
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Quote: : Employment protection legislation applies to both large and small organisations, as does your choice of whether or not to belong to a union.
I'm sure that many people act as you say out of ignorance but, hopefully, information offered by sites like this will enable staff to know and understand their rights.
People, especially those in small companies, don't know about employment legislation.
This is something that people in larger organisations are most likely unaware of.
If you work in a small company, doing your best and that stops for any reason, you just get on and find another job.
You don't spend time thinking there's any comeback etc.
As for a choice of belonging to a union.
That's the first I've ever heard of that and I have worked for over 30 years.
I don't know the first thing about unions.
How would that work then?
If you worked for a one-man business ...?
I'm not sure I see the relevance.
I thought unions were all about doing pay bargaining and/or strikes for big companies and the public sector.
Yes, sites like this are now helping to advise people.
But this never used to be the case.
Before information was freely available you pretty much just got on with your lot.
I was "sacked" in 1999.
Crazy boss had a factory and would randomly dismiss people.
If, say, you had a genuine and pre-allowed excuse to be into work late by 10 minutes on one occasion and you were walking across the car park into the building (late) and he saw you, he'd sack you on the spot.
I was "sacked" because the boss simply decided he didn't want to speak to me.
The manager given the task of doing the deed said to me "You and I both know there's no sackable offence here.
It's just the way he does things".
But from that I thought to try to take it up would require a big solicitor bill.
So I got on the phone and had another job by the following Monday in this instance.
You just write it off and put it behind you.
I am now starting to hang out here because I want to get a job and reading around there seems to be a lot of stuff I had no idea existed.
Maybe next time I meet an employer from hell, I will post here and see what happens
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Quote: : It doesn't matter.
Already the lawyers have said they'll be able to have a field day with this.
Basically, private lawsuits filing for defamation of character.
The route they intend for their clients is not only to target the companies making the entries but the company running it and the ISP of the company.
And if the companies don't tell their staff they've made the entry, the Data Protection Registrar can fine them too.
I doubt it'll last long under the weight of bad publicity and several very expensive lawsuits.
While this additional information is of some benefit, it doesn't say that a company has to tell you (ex-staff now, not staff) that they made an entry.
And there's no apparent obligation on the list-keeper to check that you know about it.
So, again, if you didn't know you were on the list ....
Who knows if you'd ever find out, yet you'd potentially suffer for being on it.
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Quote: : It doesn't matter.
Already the lawyers have said they'll be able to have a field day with this.
Basically, private lawsuits filing for defamation of character.
The route they intend for their clients is not only to target the companies making the entries but the company running it and the ISP of the company.
And if the companies don't tell their staff they've made the entry, the Data Protection Registrar can fine them too.
I doubt it'll last long under the weight of bad publicity and several very expensive lawsuits.
I'd agree with this assessment.
Interesting article on this here
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Don't like the sound of this.
Yet another example of state sponsored spying, etc.
My worry is that these "databases" are seldom secure, the data will eventually be sold onto third parties and worst of all the data may not be accurate.
It's just another example of a survielliance society.
And yet again it will be the honest who will suffer from this rather than stopping those who have been sakced for misconduct.
Very sad state of affairs.
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I wonder if they'll be setting up a database for referencing bad employers??
I would love that having had some terrible managers in the past!
in all seriousness this is worrying.
Isn't this what references are for?
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