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Salim Hamdan - The Hacker Voice Community Forums
I just watched the late night journal.
One item was about Salim Hamdan who was founded guilty of 'supporting terrorism'.
It was done in the special 'camp justice' in the Guantanamo Bay prison.
Neither the public nor the defence saw much of the proof.
There's more to the story but not much what matters in my point.
The BBC has an article on it as well if you want to read up on it: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7545484.stm
Now I don't really care about this specific instance, but to sum it up it means:
"An Afghan is convicted by an American (military) jury in an American (military) court of law of an American crime in Cuba by America using classified proof."
So America is now the world's police, prosecutor and judge.
Also it's impossible to check their judgement!
Great! Oceania is well on it's way of being formed.
The Party acquired the legal system!
I wonder how far Eurasia and Eastasia are from this.
And now?
There's the big problem.
I'm being pissed off, scribble something here on the net, go to bed, sleep, and tomorrow I'll be back doing my daily things;
Not acting on this any more.
And with me probably the rest of the world will join in not giving a shit.
Where's the real problem?
The fact this happens?
Or the fact we care more about Madonna's latest single?
What will happen next?
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Quote: I just watched the late night journal.
One item was about Salim Hamdan who was founded guilty of 'supporting terrorism'.
It was done in the special 'camp justice' in the Guantanamo Bay prison.
Neither the public nor the defence saw much of the proof.
There's more to the story but not much what matters in my point.
The BBC has an article on it as well if you want to read up on it: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7545484.stm
Now I don't really care about this specific instance, but to sum it up it means:
"An Afghan is convicted by an American (military) jury in an American (military) court of law of an American crime in Cuba by America using classified proof."
So America is now the world's police, prosecutor and judge.
Also it's impossible to check their judgement!
Great! Oceania is well on it's way of being formed.
The Party acquired the legal system!
I wonder how far Eurasia and Eastasia are from this.
And now?
There's the big problem.
I'm being pissed off, scribble something here on the net, go to bed, sleep, and tomorrow I'll be back doing my daily things;
Not acting on this any more.
And with me probably the rest of the world will join in not giving a shit.
Where's the real problem?
The fact this happens?
Or the fact we care more about Madonna's latest single?
What will happen next?
dude I think this has less to do with not caring than to do with the fact that in a military court under military jurisdiction in a country where, in all honesty, the US military and to be honest no westernised governments or countries opinion is held sacred, our opinion and therefore stance will simply be ignored.
This is the true tragedy, our governments, the US, the UK and the rest of western civilisation ignore the folk they serve and hold military trials for people they refuse to accept are military personel, in a war they refuse to accept is a war.
If they did accept it they would have to admit half of what goes on is contrary to the geneva convention and is in essence illegal, but why let a lil thing like the law interupt global domination.
In essence I agree this sucks wang, but it isn't a case of not caring more acase of government igorance.
NOVA
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Quote: dude I think this has less to do with not caring than to do with the fact that in a military court under military jurisdiction in a country where, in all honesty, the US military and to be honest no westernised governments or countries opinion is held sacred, our opinion and therefore stance will simply be ignored.
This is the true tragedy, our governments, the US, the UK and the rest of western civilisation ignore the folk they serve and hold military trials for people they refuse to accept are military personel, in a war they refuse to accept is a war.
If they did accept it they would have to admit half of what goes on is contrary to the geneva convention and is in essence illegal, but why let a lil thing like the law interupt global domination.
In essence I agree this sucks wang, but it isn't a case of not caring more acase of government igorance.
NOVA
It was a forgone conclusion that really anyone they pick up is a terrorist and will be found guilty of such.
Can they prove you are not a terrorist.
If you have no proof you are not a terrorist, you must be guilty!
Yep, the US (and Uk and pretty well much all govts) do whatever they want.
Its irrelevant if what they do is illegal or not they do it because its in their minority interest.
Only way you can get at these people is to have a revolution.
After that you need to take on big global business as after all, they are pulling the strings nowadays.
If i were you I would get over the fact that you and others are going to get screwed whilst you are alive.
Its in the govt and big business interest to screw you, its all about money.
So, work towards trying to get out of the system rather than fighting it as its cheaper and more rewarding for yourself.
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Quote: It was a forgone conclusion that really anyone they pick up is a terrorist and will be found guilty of such.
Can they prove you are not a terrorist.
If you have no proof you are not a terrorist, you must be guilty!
Well, its not so cut and dry.
Hamdan was convicted of supporting terrorism because he was a trained Al Qaeda fighter, and the personal driver and bodyguard to Osama Bin Laden.
He has fully admitted this.
The same military court has found him innocent of Conspiracy to commit terrorism (in recognition that he was just a foot soldier).
Aside from that the US military lawyer has successfully pursued a case, Hamdan Vs Rumsfeld, to the Supreme Court and won.
The same lawyer is now appealing the decision on the grounds that material support is not a war crime.
Other cases have been heard in US district court in Washington (a civilian court as per the ruling in Boumediene Vs Bush [more on that later]), and believe it or not nearly half of the "enemy combatants" that were once held at Guantanamo have been released to their respective governments.
Now the travesty of Guantanamo Bay, Torture as policy, or even the distasteful invasion of Iraq are not what I am disputing.
I am ashamed of the way that my country has behaved, and how we have allowed a very small number of people to set the national security policies in this country that have so disgraced this nation for their blatant disregard for international law and human decency.
This is not to say that there is not hope.
Many a Nation has survived the rule of a tyrant to regain the trust of their allies and respect of their rivals.
Boumediene v Bush was the beginning of a backlash in this nation that will reestablish the rule of law and reaffirm the rights that our Constitution reminds us that everyone has, regardless of race, gender, creed, ..., or NATIONALITY.
I was in the Supreme Court on Dec.
4, 2007 when the oral arguments for the Boumediene v Bush case were heard.
I watched history being made.
We now extend the right of Habeas Corpus to "unlawful enemy combatants".
I can not emphasize enough how extraordinary this is.
Hamdan is the tip of the iceberg as far as these things go.
He may even win his appeal.
However, the fact of the matter is that he is guilty of providing material support for terrorism.
The issue would be more of an extradition issue if it weren't for the fact that he is already in the US.
I am waiting to see if the military court is capable of issuing a fair sentence.
If not we may be looking at another Hamdan Supreme Court Case.
So far Hamdan's lawyer's record is 3 wins 1 loss.
Thats a pretty good record considering.
Quote: Where's the real problem?
The fact this happens?
Or the fact we care more about Madonna's latest single?
Bear in mind this is just one American's opinion, but this is something I know and care great deal about.
I actually received a research grant to write a paper about the formation of National Security Policy in the War on Terror focusing on the systematic exclusion of the laws and lawyers that were likely to oppose, or reign in the scope and nature of interrogation and detention policies.
I have observed oral arguments for the Boumediene case as a guest of the Supreme Court Marshals, and am presenting reports on the issue at several academic conferences in the spring.
In addition to that I have just finished an internship at the United Nations Headquarters as an educational liaison, and in my capacity in that position I came to better understand the international implications of the United States unilateral policies on terrorism.
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Tbh, my personal opinion is this:
These people call themselves Revolutionary Soldiers.
Thats right kids they refer to themselves as SOLDIERS, therefore they should expect to be treated as such by fellow soldiers.
Something that I would like to highlight is that the Geneva convention, does not protect, Soldiers hiding as civilians for the purpose of combat (as is the case in Iraq and Afghanistan), Terrorism and Spies.
If they insist on entering the battle field and fighting soldiers, in the way soldiers fight, with rifles, mines and an assortment of other nasty's.
Another thing I would like to highlight that 10nix said, is that he fully admitted to receiving training at Al Qaeda camps.
Having seen the propaganda and some material directly from these places I can asure you, it is pretty much the same training that all soldiers receive when undertaking basic training.
Of course, there will always be 1 or 2 cases of injustice, "wrong place, wrong time" this sort of thing is inevitable but in this case, we have a man who has fully admitted to being a Bodyguard and Driver to one (and notice I didnt say The) of the driving forces behind Middle Eastern Terror, and yet he is bawwwing about being tried by a Military court?
Well, in my opinion he is lucky he wasnt tried in a Civilian court, in a state with the Death penalty.
Also, as mad as this sounds I am fundamentally opposed to Gitmo and what it stands for, it only seeks to enhance the Terrorist cause in the Middle East, and the methods they use, well lets just say I'm quite sure The Geneva Convention protects them from it
BC
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Quote: Of course, there will always be 1 or 2 cases of injustice, "wrong place, wrong time" this sort of thing is inevitable but in this case, we have a man who has fully admitted to being a Bodyguard and Driver to one (and notice I didnt say The) of the driving forces behind Middle Eastern Terror, and yet he is bawwwing about being tried by a Military court?
Well, in my opinion he is lucky he wasnt tried in a Civilian court, in a state with the Death penalty.
I hear you there man, he could have been tried in Texas...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7547261.stm
66 months imprisonment.
I doubt that they will hold him longer.
I guess it depends on who wins the election.
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