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IS THIS TRADE FAIR? - Footballguys Forums

THIS IS IN A 10 TEAM REDRAFT AND THE 2 INVOLVED ARE BROTHERS!!! THIS IS A COMMISH TRADE APPROVAL LEAGUE! IS THIS COLLUSION OR A LOPSIDED TRADE? TEAM 1 HAD NO QB AND GIVES UP GRAHAM AND MOORE (HE WAS ON WAIVERS UNTIL THIS PAST WEEK), NEITHER WERE STARTERS ON HIS TEAM, TO TEAM 2 WHO IS ALSO HIS BROTHER, FOR P.

MANNING WHICH WAS HIS FIRST ROUND PICK (FOURTH OVER ALL).

NOT TO MENTION THE GUY WHO JUST RECIEVED GRAHAM AND MOORE ARE NOT STARTING EITHER AND THE GUY WHO GOT PEYTON WAS TROTTIN JT O'SULLIVAN OUT THERE.

THIS IS A TD HEAVY LEAGUE I NEED THE SHARK POOLS ADVICE ON THIS, IT IS SO SERIOUS THAT I REALLY AM CONSIDERING PULLING OUT OF THIS MOST DEDICATED LEAGUE I'M IN!!! ANY ADVICE ON HOW TO HANDLE THIS, IS IT A FAIR TRADE OR NO? I'M SORRY IF THIS BELONGS ON ANOTHER BOARD, BUT I NEED THE SHARK POOLS ADVICE! This post has been edited by JuSt CuZ: Oct 4 2008, 08:02 AM

FAIR TRADE AND THESE THREADS ARE GETTING OLD

Quote: FAIR TRADE AND THESE THREADS ARE GETTING OLD FAIR TRADE!!!

DUDE, THE 2 INVOLVED ARE BROTHERS!!!!

LOL, UR KIDDING ME RIGHT?

I THOUGHT THIS WAS THE MOST OBVIOUS SIGN OF COLLUSION AND DEFINITION!!!

The trade is fine.

Heads up, since you made this thread and are the one whining about the trade and it's fair and you are using all caps and shouted down the last poster expect to get grilled here. I have a feeling you just want to be combative with the posters but in case you care the trade is fine in a redraft and you shouldn't be complaining about it even if they are brothers.

GOD, ARE WE IN DIRE NEED OF A "IS THIS A FAIR TRADE OR NOT?" FORUM!!!!!!!!!!!1111

Quote: The trade is fine.

Heads up, since you made this thread and are the one whining about the trade and it's fair and you are using all caps and shouted down the last poster expect to get grilled here. I have a feeling you just want to be combative with the posters but in case you care the trade is fine in a redraft and you shouldn't be complaining about it even if they are brothers. OR IT COULD BE BECAUSE I'M AT WORK AND NEED CAPSLOCK, however did not mean to shout!

!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Baal-pteors black eyes widened as he felt the thick cords of muscles that protected the barbarians throat.

With a snarl he exerted his inhuman strength, and knots and lumps and ropes of thews rose along his massive arms.

And then a choking grasp burst from him as Conans fingers locked on his throat.

For an instant they stood there like statues, their faces masks of effort, veins beginning to stand out purply on their temples.

Conans thin lips drew back from his teeth in a grinning snarl.

Baals eyes were distended;

In them grew an awful surprise and the glimmer of fear.

They stood motionless as images, except for the expanding of their muscles on rigid arms and braced legs, but strength beyond common conception was warring there strength that might have uprooted trees and crushed the skulls of bullocks. The wind whistled suddenly from between Baal-pteors parted teeth.

His face was growing purple.

Fear flooded his eyes.

His thews seemed ready to burst from his arms and shoulders, yet the muscles of the Cimmerian thick neck did not give, they felt like masses of woven iron cords under his desperate fingers.

But his own flesh was giving way under the iron fingers of the Cimmerian which ground deeper and deeper into the yielding throat-muscles, crushing them in upon jugular and wind-pipe with a savage wrench he twisted Baal-pteors head around until the ghastly face leered over the left shoulder, and the vertebrae snapped like a rotten branch.

Cecil and Sigmund discussed this on the drive block the other day.

I don't know that this looks like obvious collusion or not.

Graham is playing pretty well and Moore looks to be a #2/#3 receiver on a good offense.

I am in a league with my brother and I know i wouldn't give him any bargain basement deals.

Hard to know without seeing the rosters and knowing there records but I wouldn't lose any sleep over it. If you feel you need to drop out of the league then you should do so.

This early in the season, I find it hard to consider anything collusion.

Normally it is more of an issue at the end of the season when one team is eliminated and the other is playoff bound.

Fair trade. Maybe you should try a Yahoo league instead.

I hear they are a lot more exciting.

Quote: Cecil and Sigmund discussed this on the drive block the other day.

I don't know that this looks like obvious collusion or not.

Graham is playing pretty well and Moore looks to be a #2/#3 receiver on a good offense.

I am in a league with my brother and I know i wouldn't give him any bargain basement deals.

Hard to know without seeing the rosters and knowing there records but I wouldn't lose any sleep over it. If you feel you need to drop out of the league then you should do so. Team 1 (NOW AFTER TRADE and lineups for this week) QB Peyton Manning WR Larry Fitzgerald WR DeSean Jackson WR Santana Moss RB Adrian Peterson RB Reggie Bush TE Jason Witten K Nate Kaeding DEF Dallas Team 2 QB Philip Rivers WR Hines Ward WR Calvin Johnson WR Ike Hilliard RB Michael Turner RB Kevin Smith TE Owen Daniels K Jason Elam DEF San Diego

Quote: Quote: FAIR TRADE AND THESE THREADS ARE GETTING OLD FAIR TRADE!!!

DUDE, THE 2 INVOLVED ARE BROTHERS!!!!

LOL, UR KIDDING ME RIGHT?

I THOUGHT THIS WAS THE MOST OBVIOUS SIGN OF COLLUSION AND DEFINITION!!! so brother can not trade .

Looks like one needed a QB and the other needed a RB abd WR

Quote: Fair trade.

Maybe you should try a Yahoo league instead.

I hear they are a lot more exciting. we are talking Peyton not Eli, i really have to look at the shark pool differently for even considering this is just!!! i thought this was gonna be a hands down bad trade discussion, but WOW!!!

It really depends on a few things.

Consider this: Fair trade's strategic intent is to deliberately work with marginalized producers and workers in order to help them move from a position of vulnerability to security and economic self-sufficiency.

It also aims at empowering them to become stakeholders in their own organizations and actively play a wider role in the global arena to achieve greater equity in international trade. Given these two basic preconditions, I would say that this is not fair trade. Oh, advice?

Hit the ACF.

One interesting fact in this case that I noted was that the team that gave Manning and received Graham and Moore isn't using either Grant or Moore in their lineup. That does have a collusive sniff to it...

Although looking at the team, dropping in Graham / Moore for Kevin Smith/Hilliard seems like it'd strengthen his team. As commish, I'd ask the Peyton owner how this made his team better, considering he's not starting the received players. Without the information that these guys weren't starting, however, its a fine trade.

Just because Manning was a 1st rounder and Moore was a waiver guy, doesn't mean their forward value matches the projected value at season's beginning.

Moore, as of now, looks to be the top receiving option on a pass heavy offense for a few weeks, then expects to maintain a WR2 role when Colston returns.

He could be Welker 2008, a borderline WR1 in PPR.

Add in a solid RB2, and you net a slumping QB1.

Quote: Quote: Cecil and Sigmund discussed this on the drive block the other day.

I don't know that this looks like obvious collusion or not.

Graham is playing pretty well and Moore looks to be a #2/#3 receiver on a good offense.

I am in a league with my brother and I know i wouldn't give him any bargain basement deals.

Hard to know without seeing the rosters and knowing there records but I wouldn't lose any sleep over it. If you feel you need to drop out of the league then you should do so. Team 1 (NOW AFTER TRADE and lineups for this week) QB Peyton Manning WR Larry Fitzgerald WR DeSean Jackson WR Santana Moss RB Adrian Peterson RB Reggie Bush TE Jason Witten K Nate Kaeding DEF Dallas Team 2 QB Philip Rivers WR Hines Ward WR Calvin Johnson WR Ike Hilliard RB Michael Turner RB Kevin Smith TE Owen Daniels K Jason Elam DEF San Diego I'd be willing to bet that is Team 2's lineup from last week, or it was submitted before the trade was finalized.

What type of league is this?

Our old Statsworld league automatically used the previous lineup until it was changed.

Since Peyton was on bye last week, he'd probably have Rivers as his starter.

He might have Rivers anyway, he's been the better play this year. Peyton has not been the Peyton of old this year.

Maybe he will rebound, maybe he won't.

But according to the Top 250 forward, this is pretty even.

Team 1 gets a slight advantage in this trade, but Team 2 has Rivers as his QB (who has done SIGNIFICANTLY better than Peyton this year) and should be able to replace two of his "starters" with his new players.

Graham should starte over Smith, and Moore should start (or at least play matchups with) Hilliard.

Team 2, in theory, will upgrade at 3 positions, by starting Rivers, Graham, and Moore over Manning, Smith, and Moore. Both teams improved-this is not collusion. This post has been edited by Bayhawks: Oct 4 2008, 08:31 AM

It was a "need" trade for both.

The dude has Phillip Rivers who is playing like a semi-fantasy MVP.

Also had Kevin Smith as a starting back, who lost his starting job. Trade Manning for Graham, and with Lance Moore, (who will be a starter on the best passing team,by the way), the trade is very fair. Both teams filled holes.

Isnt that what trades are really all about? You are acting like a baby.

Stop

YOU HAVE NO REASON TO YELL.

STOP THE INSANITY.

Quote: It was a "need" trade for both.

The dude has Phillip Rivers who is playing like a semi-fantasy MVP.

Also had Kevin Smith as a starting back, who lost his starting job. Trade Manning for Graham, and with Lance Moore, (who will be a starter on the best passing team,by the way), the trade is very fair. Both teams filled holes.

Isnt that what trades are really all about? You are acting like a baby.

Stop My faith in what this board had to say has ruined all credibilty of its advice...to me....I can't believe in a TD heavy league where all td's are 6 points that it is fair to say that Mannings value is where Grahams is, I laugh!!!

I must be a fantasy football moron, but what do i know I only get paid to host a fantasy football talk show on WJNT 1180 in here Jacktucky (another cheap plug), maybe I should be fired for thinking of actual fantasy value here!!!

Quote: Quote: Quote: Cecil and Sigmund discussed this on the drive block the other day.

I don't know that this looks like obvious collusion or not.

Graham is playing pretty well and Moore looks to be a #2/#3 receiver on a good offense.

I am in a league with my brother and I know i wouldn't give him any bargain basement deals.

Hard to know without seeing the rosters and knowing there records but I wouldn't lose any sleep over it. If you feel you need to drop out of the league then you should do so. Team 1 (NOW AFTER TRADE and lineups for this week) QB Peyton Manning WR Larry Fitzgerald WR DeSean Jackson WR Santana Moss RB Adrian Peterson RB Reggie Bush TE Jason Witten K Nate Kaeding DEF Dallas Team 2 QB Philip Rivers WR Hines Ward WR Calvin Johnson WR Ike Hilliard RB Michael Turner RB Kevin Smith TE Owen Daniels K Jason Elam DEF San Diego As a couple others have noted, I love how you conveniently left Graham and Moore out of Team 2's lineup.

Submit those two lineup moves for team 2 and I can definitely say I know why he made the trade and consider his team better for it. I love how people think i'm trying to make it look bad, however, this is the lineups copy and pasted as of time of post, and your inclination of changing lineups is insulting, but if you want to bash me for just trying to find out if its a fair trade, please do so, feel better about yourselves!

Quote: I must be a fantasy football moron [/thread]

Quote: THIS IS IN A 10 TEAM REDRAFT AND THE 2 INVOLVED ARE BROTHERS!!! THIS IS A COMMISH TRADE APPROVAL LEAGUE! IS THIS COLLUSION OR A LOPSIDED TRADE? TEAM 1 HAD NO QB AND GIVES UP GRAHAM AND MOORE (HE WAS ON WAIVERS UNTIL THIS PAST WEEK), NEITHER WERE STARTERS ON HIS TEAM, TO TEAM 2 WHO IS ALSO HIS BROTHER, FOR P.

MANNING WHICH WAS HIS FIRST ROUND PICK (FOURTH OVER ALL).

NOT TO MENTION THE GUY WHO JUST RECIEVED GRAHAM AND MOORE ARE NOT STARTING EITHER AND THE GUY WHO GOT PEYTON WAS TROTTIN JT O'SULLIVAN OUT THERE.

THIS IS A TD HEAVY LEAGUE I NEED THE SHARK POOLS ADVICE ON THIS, IT IS SO SERIOUS THAT I REALLY AM CONSIDERING PULLING OUT OF THIS MOST DEDICATED LEAGUE I'M IN!!! ANY ADVICE ON HOW TO HANDLE THIS, IS IT A FAIR TRADE OR NO? I'M SORRY IF THIS BELONGS ON ANOTHER BOARD, BUT I NEED THE SHARK POOLS ADVICE! Back to your first post.

You clearly were not looking for advice.

Quote: Quote: THIS IS IN A 10 TEAM REDRAFT AND THE 2 INVOLVED ARE BROTHERS!!! THIS IS A COMMISH TRADE APPROVAL LEAGUE! IS THIS COLLUSION OR A LOPSIDED TRADE? TEAM 1 HAD NO QB AND GIVES UP GRAHAM AND MOORE (HE WAS ON WAIVERS UNTIL THIS PAST WEEK), NEITHER WERE STARTERS ON HIS TEAM, TO TEAM 2 WHO IS ALSO HIS BROTHER, FOR P.

MANNING WHICH WAS HIS FIRST ROUND PICK (FOURTH OVER ALL).

NOT TO MENTION THE GUY WHO JUST RECIEVED GRAHAM AND MOORE ARE NOT STARTING EITHER AND THE GUY WHO GOT PEYTON WAS TROTTIN JT O'SULLIVAN OUT THERE.

THIS IS A TD HEAVY LEAGUE I NEED THE SHARK POOLS ADVICE ON THIS, IT IS SO SERIOUS THAT I REALLY AM CONSIDERING PULLING OUT OF THIS MOST DEDICATED LEAGUE I'M IN!!! ANY ADVICE ON HOW TO HANDLE THIS, IS IT A FAIR TRADE OR NO? I'M SORRY IF THIS BELONGS ON ANOTHER BOARD, BUT I NEED THE SHARK POOLS ADVICE! Back to your first post.

You clearly were not looking for advice. your ight i clearly was not, look i'm not trying to argue, its an unfair trade and i thought more would see that!!!

Quote: Quote: Fair trade.

Maybe you should try a Yahoo league instead.

I hear they are a lot more exciting. we are talking Peyton not Eli, i really have to look at the shark pool differently for even considering this is just!!! i thought this was gonna be a hands down bad trade discussion, but WOW!!! If you want serious answers to questions, you should accept the answers even if they are not the same opinion as yours.

You may not agree with the answers given here by the FBG community...and that's fine...but you should not criticize people for disagreeing with you.

You asked and they answered.

That is why these message boards are here. As for the trade, this kind of post comes up all the time.

The question of whether a trade is fair or not is asked often.

The problem is that every owner values players differently.

Another problem is you nor any other owner has a right to manage someone elses team.

The owner who traded Manning got a solid RB2 in the deal, plus a WR.

Yes, he could have gotten more.

Yes, it's in favor of the other owner.

But it is definitely not collusion, therefore, it is a good trade. Trades do not have to be fair to everyone.

Unless there is blatant collusion or other below board dealings, a trade should stand, period.

There is no rule that says a trade has to be even.

What exactly is even or fair anyways?

The answer depends on who you talk to and how they value players.

The basic thing is you do not have a right to run someone elses team.

If the owner wants to trade Manning for less than what he is worth, that's his choice, not yours.

The only reason a trade should not go through is blatant collusion. I also wonder about the caliber of owners in your league.

If you are posting here and reading here and they aren't, you are highly likely to know more and be better able to judge value.

Consider that when looking at a trade.

I have no idea if the other owners are FBGs or not, so I can't answer that question.

Quote: Quote: It was a "need" trade for both.

The dude has Phillip Rivers who is playing like a semi-fantasy MVP.

Also had Kevin Smith as a starting back, who lost his starting job. Trade Manning for Graham, and with Lance Moore, (who will be a starter on the best passing team,by the way), the trade is very fair. Both teams filled holes.

Isnt that what trades are really all about? You are acting like a baby.

Stop My faith in what this board had to say has ruined all credibilty of its advice...to me....I can't believe in a TD heavy league where all td's are 6 points that it is fair to say that Mannings value is where Grahams is, I laugh!!!

I must be a fantasy football moron, but what do i know I only get paid to host a fantasy football talk show on WJNT 1180 in here Jacktucky (another cheap plug), maybe I should be fired for thinking of actual fantasy value here!!! Manning has throw 3 TOUCHDOWNS this year.

Rivers has thrown 10 TOUCHDOWNS this year.

If you are getting paid to host a FF talk show, you should realize that bench players don't give you points!

If Rivers is on his bench, he isn't getting him any points.

If Manning is on his bench, he isn't getting him any points.

So it makes sense to trade one of those 2 guys.

It also makes sense to trade Manning since Rivers is playing better.

So let's compare apples to apples, shall we? Is Rivers a better play than Manning?

That's a toss-up, as Manning could return to his stud form.

However, I (and obviously Team 2 owner) think Rivers will equal or better Manning's stats this year. Is Graham a better play than Kevin Smith?

Yes Is Lance Moore a better play than Ike Hilliard?

Definitely for the next few weeks, and (IMO) probably for the entire year. So Team 2 probably didn't lose value at QB, gained at RB, and probably gained at WR. So Mr.

FF talk show host, how do you explain this as a bad trade?

Quote: Quote: Quote: THIS IS IN A 10 TEAM REDRAFT AND THE 2 INVOLVED ARE BROTHERS!!! THIS IS A COMMISH TRADE APPROVAL LEAGUE! IS THIS COLLUSION OR A LOPSIDED TRADE? TEAM 1 HAD NO QB AND GIVES UP GRAHAM AND MOORE (HE WAS ON WAIVERS UNTIL THIS PAST WEEK), NEITHER WERE STARTERS ON HIS TEAM, TO TEAM 2 WHO IS ALSO HIS BROTHER, FOR P.

MANNING WHICH WAS HIS FIRST ROUND PICK (FOURTH OVER ALL).

NOT TO MENTION THE GUY WHO JUST RECIEVED GRAHAM AND MOORE ARE NOT STARTING EITHER AND THE GUY WHO GOT PEYTON WAS TROTTIN JT O'SULLIVAN OUT THERE.

THIS IS A TD HEAVY LEAGUE I NEED THE SHARK POOLS ADVICE ON THIS, IT IS SO SERIOUS THAT I REALLY AM CONSIDERING PULLING OUT OF THIS MOST DEDICATED LEAGUE I'M IN!!! ANY ADVICE ON HOW TO HANDLE THIS, IS IT A FAIR TRADE OR NO? I'M SORRY IF THIS BELONGS ON ANOTHER BOARD, BUT I NEED THE SHARK POOLS ADVICE! Back to your first post.

You clearly were not looking for advice. your ight i clearly was not, look i'm not trying to argue, its an unfair trade and i thought more would see that!!! Peyton Manning hasn't quite looked like the QB in past years just yet.

Maybe he will start to light it up, maybe he won't.

The trade is far from "unfair", IMO.

Quote: Quote: Quote: Fair trade.

Maybe you should try a Yahoo league instead.

I hear they are a lot more exciting. we are talking Peyton not Eli, i really have to look at the shark pool differently for even considering this is just!!! i thought this was gonna be a hands down bad trade discussion, but WOW!!! If you want serious answers to questions, you should accept the answers even if they are not the same opinion as yours.

You may not agree with the answers given here by the FBG community...and that's fine...but you should not criticize people for disagreeing with you.

You asked and they answered.

That is why these message boards are here. As for the trade, this kind of post comes up all the time.

The question of whether a trade is fair or not is asked often.

The problem is that every owner values players differently.

Another problem is you nor any other owner has a right to manage someone elses team.

The owner who traded Manning got a solid RB2 in the deal, plus a WR.

Yes, he could have gotten more.

Yes, it's in favor of the other owner.

But it is definitely not collusion, therefore, it is a good trade. Trades do not have to be fair to everyone.

Unless there is blatant collusion or other below board dealings, a trade should stand, period.

There is no rule that says a trade has to be even.

What exactly is even or fair anyways?

The answer depends on who you talk to and how they value players.

The basic thing is you do not have a right to run someone elses team.

If the owner wants to trade Manning for less than what he is worth, that's his choice, not yours.

The only reason a trade should not go through is blatant collusion. I also wonder about the caliber of owners in your league.

If you are posting here and reading here and they aren't, you are highly likely to know more and be better able to judge value.

Consider that when looking at a trade.

I have no idea if the other owners are FBGs or not, so I can't answer that question. thank you for the helpful post, i believe only 4 out of the 10 even log on here, but my commish is a guy who has been here for years, the person involved was his best friend and the trade went to his brother, i know these guys well and maybe that is why i see collusion, maybe next time when some people post they can read the post at my word and not get mad becuz i left caps lock on, lol!!!

Quote: Quote: Quote: Quote: Cecil and Sigmund discussed this on the drive block the other day.

I don't know that this looks like obvious collusion or not.

Graham is playing pretty well and Moore looks to be a #2/#3 receiver on a good offense.

I am in a league with my brother and I know i wouldn't give him any bargain basement deals.

Hard to know without seeing the rosters and knowing there records but I wouldn't lose any sleep over it. If you feel you need to drop out of the league then you should do so. Team 1 (NOW AFTER TRADE and lineups for this week) QB Peyton Manning WR Larry Fitzgerald WR DeSean Jackson WR Santana Moss RB Adrian Peterson RB Reggie Bush TE Jason Witten K Nate Kaeding DEF Dallas Team 2 QB Philip Rivers WR Hines Ward WR Calvin Johnson WR Ike Hilliard RB Michael Turner RB Kevin Smith TE Owen Daniels K Jason Elam DEF San Diego As a couple others have noted, I love how you conveniently left Graham and Moore out of Team 2's lineup.

Submit those two lineup moves for team 2 and I can definitely say I know why he made the trade and consider his team better for it. I love how people think i'm trying to make it look bad, however, this is the lineups copy and pasted as of time of post, and your inclination of changing lineups is insulting, but if you want to bash me for just trying to find out if its a fair trade, please do so, feel better about yourselves! Where did anybody say anything about you changing lineups?

What we are saying is, post the teams best starting lineup after the trade.

Don't make some lame post 5 seconds after the players are sent to their new teams and Team 2 hasn't changed his lineup yet.

You were trying to help your side of the argument.

Who cares if it's unfair?

Prove it's collusion or else go cry in the corner, or "on air" to your "listeners". "Vince Lombardi's retirement as coach of the Packers and Favre's as a player have followed parallel tracks.

Lombardi announced his retirement in an emotional press conference soon after Super Bowl II and essentially cited burnout as the reason.

And, by all accounts, he regretted his decision by the time training camp arrived five months later.

When the 1968 season ended, he asked out of his contract as general manager of the Packers and bolted to Washington to coach again."

Quote: Quote: Quote: It was a "need" trade for both.

The dude has Phillip Rivers who is playing like a semi-fantasy MVP.

Also had Kevin Smith as a starting back, who lost his starting job. Trade Manning for Graham, and with Lance Moore, (who will be a starter on the best passing team,by the way), the trade is very fair. Both teams filled holes.

Isnt that what trades are really all about? You are acting like a baby.

Stop My faith in what this board had to say has ruined all credibilty of its advice...to me....I can't believe in a TD heavy league where all td's are 6 points that it is fair to say that Mannings value is where Grahams is, I laugh!!!

I must be a fantasy football moron, but what do i know I only get paid to host a fantasy football talk show on WJNT 1180 in here Jacktucky (another cheap plug), maybe I should be fired for thinking of actual fantasy value here!!! Manning has throw 3 TOUCHDOWNS this year.

Rivers has thrown 10 TOUCHDOWNS this year.

If you are getting paid to host a FF talk show, you should realize that bench players don't give you points!

If Rivers is on his bench, he isn't getting him any points.

If Manning is on his bench, he isn't getting him any points.

So it makes sense to trade one of those 2 guys.

It also makes sense to trade Manning since Rivers is playing better.

So let's compare apples to apples, shall we? Is Rivers a better play than Manning?

That's a toss-up, as Manning could return to his stud form.

However, I (and obviously Team 2 owner) think Rivers will equal or better Manning's stats this year. Is Graham a better play than Kevin Smith?

Yes Is Lance Moore a better play than Ike Hilliard?

Definitely for the next few weeks, and (IMO) probably for the entire year. So Team 2 probably didn't lose value at QB, gained at RB, and probably gained at WR. So Mr.

FF talk show host, how do you explain this as a bad trade? Peyton Manning is a elite QB no matter what his stats say thru the first 3 weeks, Minnesota, Chicago, and Jacksonville are the teams he played not to mention a bye and has only played 1 division game, you are sadly mistaken if you think he can not or will not turn it around!!! Lance Moore is a bumb with little to know value after next week, Colston comes back and Moore will barely see the field, remember i'm in the media here in the town where the saints have training camp, and one of my friends and insider says he wont see the field much do to the willingness to get Meachem more PT! And for Graham, he is a guy on a team that is most assuradly going to have a fight in the backfield between him, Dunn, and Caddy when he gets back, Dunn is already cutting into carries!

Quote: Quote: Quote: Quote: Quote: Cecil and Sigmund discussed this on the drive block the other day.

I don't know that this looks like obvious collusion or not.

Graham is playing pretty well and Moore looks to be a #2/#3 receiver on a good offense.

I am in a league with my brother and I know i wouldn't give him any bargain basement deals.

Hard to know without seeing the rosters and knowing there records but I wouldn't lose any sleep over it. If you feel you need to drop out of the league then you should do so. Team 1 (NOW AFTER TRADE and lineups for this week) QB Peyton Manning WR Larry Fitzgerald WR DeSean Jackson WR Santana Moss RB Adrian Peterson RB Reggie Bush TE Jason Witten K Nate Kaeding DEF Dallas Team 2 QB Philip Rivers WR Hines Ward WR Calvin Johnson WR Ike Hilliard RB Michael Turner RB Kevin Smith TE Owen Daniels K Jason Elam DEF San Diego As a couple others have noted, I love how you conveniently left Graham and Moore out of Team 2's lineup.

Submit those two lineup moves for team 2 and I can definitely say I know why he made the trade and consider his team better for it. I love how people think i'm trying to make it look bad, however, this is the lineups copy and pasted as of time of post, and your inclination of changing lineups is insulting, but if you want to bash me for just trying to find out if its a fair trade, please do so, feel better about yourselves! Where did anybody say anything about you changing lineups?

What we are saying is, post the teams best starting lineup after the trade.

Don't make some lame post 5 seconds after the players are sent to their new teams and Team 2 hasn't changed his lineup yet.

You were trying to help your side of the argument. Please read post befor assuming and jumping on the band wagon to hate on me!

Quote: Who cares if it's unfair?

Prove it's collusion or else go cry in the corner, or "on air" to your "listeners". there Brothers that I know on a personal level, I can confirm thru my knowledge and understanding of our league that this is a foul move!!!

Unjust and unfair to the others in the league!!!

Not because of the fact we did not get a swindle like this, but it made the league lopsided!!!

It's not completely fair but it's close enough to go through. If I was Commissioner, I wouldn't stop it.

May I please remind everyone without bias that money is on the line here, this is not a free league, so understand my concern when a team is now thrown into a dominate place because of a brother throwing a player to another!!!

Dude So you're mad because a guy with Manning as his #2 QB, traded him to his brother to get a #2 RB and a #3 WR?

What's Manning do for him on his bench?

Just because he may not have gotten the value "you" think he should of, doesn't mean the trade is not fair, or collusion is going on.

Would you still be throwing a hissy fit if the trade didnt' involve brothers? This post has been edited by duece2626: Oct 4 2008, 09:17 AM

I would like to know where you live, when your radio show is on, and who the manager of the station is.

If they employ you, I would like to see your credentials.

You sound like a rabid idiot who has no idea what "value" is in terms of fantasy football.

But, you are the radio host so we must all be wrong.

I would like to listen to your show...

It is broadcast online?

If not, you need syndication now.

Possibly unequal value (what trade isn't?!), definitely improvement for both teams.

Not even CLOSE to collusion.

If the owner that traded away Manning chooses not to use his new RB and WR, then he's just not very bright. Don't ever define collusion based on name recognition or draft positions.

Every year WW guys get picked up that severely outperform early round duds.

As an earlier poster noted, one guy had some "extra" QB strength in his roster and traded it for some good options at other positions.

Just so happened that the guy who he elected to work with was his brother.

You should only be upset that you didn't see the potential to get a decent QB just by upgrading one of his other positions with some of your bench fodder since this is where great trade values can be found. And oh yeah...don't come here looking for an opinion if you are going to complain when we don't all agree with you... This post has been edited by ctriopelle: Oct 4 2008, 09:20 AM

Couple of additional insights: 1) My assumption is that the two men in question were brothers when you made the decision to join the league.

To complain about it now seems like sour grapes.

Close relationships exist between brothers (probably especially between those that join FF leagues together) so their ability to work deals with one another is simply going to be very good. 2) Performance dictates PT.

Last I heard, Colston is targeting Week 8 for his return.

So that leaves 3 games (about 25% of most FF regular seasons) where Lance Moore is arguably the #1 WR in the #1 passing offense in the NFL.

If he performs like he did last week, he will not disappear from the field.

Think Eddie Royal.

Robert Meachem is irrelevant to this discussion. 3) As it relates to Earnest Graham, he's been a stud this year.

He's a borderline RB1, but certainly no worse than high end RB2.

This dates back to last season. 4) Fair/Unfair...doesn't matter.

Fair/Unfair deals happen all the time in real sports (Randy Moss for John Bowie).

And there is alot more 'money' on the line with those deals.

Collusion is difficult to prove, but remains the only reason IMO deals should be voided and they have to be a lot more blatant than this one (which I think is fine) to warrant a diatribe.

This is why you shouldn't play in leagues where owners are brothers.

I prefer leagues where no one knows anyone.

I play in one league full of brothers others who know each other, and I must say that I don't like it.

I play in another league where I know one player personally. I prefer the Manning side of this deal obviously.

I think Manning is going to turn it up a notch or two now that the Colts OL is healthy.

Quote: Quote: Quote: Quote: It was a "need" trade for both.

The dude has Phillip Rivers who is playing like a semi-fantasy MVP.

Also had Kevin Smith as a starting back, who lost his starting job. Trade Manning for Graham, and with Lance Moore, (who will be a starter on the best passing team,by the way), the trade is very fair. Both teams filled holes.

Isnt that what trades are really all about? You are acting like a baby.

Stop My faith in what this board had to say has ruined all credibilty of its advice...to me....I can't believe in a TD heavy league where all td's are 6 points that it is fair to say that Mannings value is where Grahams is, I laugh!!!

I must be a fantasy football moron, but what do i know I only get paid to host a fantasy football talk show on WJNT 1180 in here Jacktucky (another cheap plug), maybe I should be fired for thinking of actual fantasy value here!!! Manning has throw 3 TOUCHDOWNS this year.

Rivers has thrown 10 TOUCHDOWNS this year.

If you are getting paid to host a FF talk show, you should realize that bench players don't give you points!

If Rivers is on his bench, he isn't getting him any points.

If Manning is on his bench, he isn't getting him any points.

So it makes sense to trade one of those 2 guys.

It also makes sense to trade Manning since Rivers is playing better.

So let's compare apples to apples, shall we? Is Rivers a better play than Manning?

That's a toss-up, as Manning could return to his stud form.

However, I (and obviously Team 2 owner) think Rivers will equal or better Manning's stats this year. Is Graham a better play than Kevin Smith?

Yes Is Lance Moore a better play than Ike Hilliard?

Definitely for the next few weeks, and (IMO) probably for the entire year. So Team 2 probably didn't lose value at QB, gained at RB, and probably gained at WR. So Mr.

FF talk show host, how do you explain this as a bad trade? Peyton Manning is a elite QB no matter what his stats say thru the first 3 weeks, Minnesota, Chicago, and Jacksonville are the teams he played not to mention a bye and has only played 1 division game, you are sadly mistaken if you think he can not or will not turn it around!!!! Lance Moore is a bumb with little to know value after next week, Colston comes back and Moore will barely see the field, remember i'm in the media here in the town where the saints have training camp, and one of my friends and insider says he wont see the field much do to the willingness to get Meachem more PT! And for Graham, he is a guy on a team that is most assuradly going to have a fight in the backfield between him, Dunn, and Caddy when he gets back, Dunn is already cutting into carries! Ok, at least those are thought out points, instead of "I don't believe this board, this is clearly a bad trade!" However, you didn't address the comparison of players at each position.

It doesn't matter if you feel that Manning is elite, and the other guys are "bumbs" (BTW-it's spelled "bum").

Try to compare the changes Team 2 made at each position. 1) Manning is an elite QB.

No argument there.

Look it this way though.

In 1998, Manning was a rookie and he finished as QB9, with 267 FP.

Ahead of him were such elite QBs like Steve Young and Brett Favre.

In 1999, Manning took his step into elite QB status, finishing as QB3, ahead of both Favre and Young.

If early in 1999, you had said "it's ridiculous to trade Favre and play Manning.

Favre is an elite QB, you are sadly mistaken if you think he can not or will not turn it around!!!!" THEN YOU WOULD HAVE BEEN WRONG!

Players fall off, others step up.

If you value players just off of what they have done in the past, then you will not be successful in FF.

As a FF talk show host, you should realize this.

Otherwise, Braylon Edwards and Randy Moss would be at the top of the WR rankings right now, but they aren't. THE FACT IS=Right now, Manning and Rivers are at least equal, so there is not drop off there. 2) Lance Moore is a bum.

I don't agree, but I'm not gonna argue that.

Is he a better option that Hilliard?

You didn't address that.

Please do. You said that you heard in training camp that they want to get Meacham more involved.

That's great, but trying to get him involved doesn't equal production.

I heard LAST WEEK, that Brees loves Moore, and Moore has produced.

Meacham has had 6 targets, Moore has had 22, enough said. THE FACT IS=Moore is a better option than Hilliard at least until Colston gets back, and then perhaps even longer. 3) Graham is "assuradly" (it's spelled assuredly) going to be stuck in a RBBC.

What about Kevin Smith?

He's at best in a RBBC with Rudi Johnson, at worst a back-up RB.

At least Graham is on a team that will usually have an opportunity to run.

He is on pace to have 1500 total yards and 8 TDs. THE FACT IS=Graham is a better option than Kevin Smith. Please address these comparisons.

Don't just look at the fact that a "big name" player got traded.

If you are worth your pay as a FF talk show host, you HAVE to realize that Team 2 did improve as a result of this trade.

If he improved his team, he didn't just "give" Manning to his brother, therefore, it WAS NOT collusion.

Discussion Title: IS THIS TRADE FAIR?
Title Keywords: THIS TRADE FAIR? Footballguys Forums

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