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How the E-4X0 line can compete against the G line [Page 1]: Olympus SLR Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review
Many are wondering how the E-420 class of camera can compete against the G1 since the G1 offers near SLR performance in a smaller body with smaller lenses as an advantage.
Obviously something has to improve in the next iteration of the E-420 so that it is not clobbered by an avalanche of slr type EVIL cameras, but what?
small body size - ok
small kit lenses - ok
small wide angle zoom - ok
small telephoto zoom - ok
pancake lens - ok
large viewfinder - wooops!
That´s right folks, who would have guessed that when competing against an EVF camera, the biggest weakness of an SLR would be a tiny viewfinder?
The G1 EVF is 100% view at 1.4x mag., so Oly must get the cracking on a better viewfinder.
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The E-4xx is cheaper
the E-4xx offers fast AF with any FT lens
the E-4xx has an optical viewfinder (not seen as an advanateg for everyone, but as an differentiator to the G series)
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Quote: :
>...
>
That´s right folks, who would have guessed that when competing
>
Against an EVF camera, the biggest weakness of an SLR would be a tiny
>
Viewfinder? The G1 EVF is 100% view at 1.4x mag., so Oly must get the
>
Cracking on a better viewfinder.
A better viewfinder would have to be bigger, so I doubt that we will see it on any E-xxx camera.
In fact, I think we are seeing the beginning of the end of small DSLRs like the E-420.
EVIL cameras, like the G1, make a lot more sense for this size and price range.
Eventually, too, if EVFs become good enough, they will replace prisms and mirrors on larger interchangeable lens cameras.
The last holdouts may be cameras that require really quick AF, unless manufacturers can figure out a way to make contrast detection AF fast enough or to incorporate phase detection AF in EVIL cameras.
Jeff
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Enough!
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I agree. The only missing feature, compared to the G1, is IS.
Inbody IS would give it a frightful advantage.
However one might also imagine a 5X0 with a bigger OVF and the G1 sensor.
Last, does anybody believe Oly could design a regular 4/3 with EVF?
I'd be interested.
Am.
--
Photostream: http://www.flickr.com/photos/7689141@N06/
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Quiet operation - not ok.
(although I don't know how quiet the G1 is yet!).
Alistair
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http://www.al-pasha.com/./gallery2/main.php
http://www.flickr.com/photos/twonker/
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> Last, does anybody believe Oly could design a regular 4/3 with EVF?
>
I'd be interested.
While you could design this, it makes no sense to do so.
If you use an EVF then why would you want to have a mirror box?
You may just go to M43 in that case.
That being said, I do not think that entry level DSLRs will be an endangered species anytime soon.
Panasonic's camera is priced very high, only 2 lenses are available, and their current lens roadmap only has a handful of lenses in it.
Most of the posts that state that M43 will kill off (part of) 4/3 always assume that:
1) The EVF works perfectly and just as well as an optical viewfinder
2) The camera and lenses are at a comparable price level as the DSLR equivalents
3) A sufficient number of lenses is available for the system
While I would agree that such a scenario could indeed kill off almost any DSLR system, I just do not see this happening any time soon.
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Quote: :
> small body size - ok
>
Small kit lenses - ok
>
Small wide angle zoom - ok
>
Small telephoto zoom - ok
>
Pancake lens - ok
>
Large viewfinder - wooops!
All your points are fair but three of those lenses you cannot buy yet and I'd really like to see how well the EVF and CDAF hold up in lowlight for myself, particularly the EVF lag.
If it does hold up then you have a point.
This though is a point against every small intro level DSLR not just the 420.
You can imagine that they can stick IS in it and weather seal it and produce a decent battery grip and movie mode with AF and shoot 8 fps and then there are very real advantages this thing can have against any DSLR.
Unfortunately, it isn't clear to me yet how well any of this works in practice and while there is great potential, it is also entirely possible that they don't realize much of it.
I think it will be more clear where things will go a year from now.
Cheers,
-Gautham
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C&C always welcome.
Reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/gnarayan/
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Juergen Quote: :
>
> Last, does anybody believe Oly could design a regular 4/3 with EVF?
>
> I'd be interested.
>
>
While you could design this, it makes no sense to do so.
If you use
> an EVF then why would you want to have a mirror box?
You may just go
>
To M43 in that case.
>
>
That being said, I do not think that entry level DSLRs will be an
>
Endangered species anytime soon.
Panasonic's camera is priced very
>
High, only 2 lenses are available, and their current lens roadmap
>
Only has a handful of lenses in it.
>
Most of the posts that state that M43 will kill off (part of) 4/3
>
Always assume that:
>
1) The EVF works perfectly and just as well as an optical viewfinder
>
2) The camera and lenses are at a comparable price level as the DSLR
>
Equivalents
> 3) A sufficient number of lenses is available for the system
>
While I would agree that such a scenario could indeed kill off almost
>
Any DSLR system, I just do not see this happening any time soon.
People didn't expect digital to kill out film but look today and you see a dramatic shift.
Changing an optical path is not as big as changing from film to digital.
So I guess movement to EVF could be faster than we all think, on the other hand if electronic sensors don't match biological sensors (eyes) quick or to a good enough standard due to electronics and stuff then we might be stuck with mirrors.
Heres to hoping that EVF win out in the end, and we get cheap point and shooters with low lag and viewfinders as big(or bigger) as 35mm film slrs.
Then theres one less negative at buying cameras with smaller sensors.
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Alex
People who are bored cause more trouble than busy people so keep busy and keep others busy else you'll be in trouble
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Juergen Quote: :
>...
>
Most of the posts that state that M43 will kill off (part of) 4/3
>
Always assume that:
>
1) The EVF works perfectly and just as well as an optical viewfinder
It only has to work well enough to satisfy the target market segment.
For entry-level DSLRs, that is primarily new purchasers of interchangeable lens cameras.
Also, even a poor EVF has more capabilities than an optical viewfinder.
>
2) The camera and lenses are at a comparable price level as the DSLR
>
Equivalents
That will come soon enough.
The G1 is priced high like any new camera.
Prices will drop.
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3) A sufficient number of lenses is available for the system
I do not think that is a big consideration for the target market.
The two kit zooms may be all most want.
There is also the 14-140 on the way that may satisfy many all by itself.
>
While I would agree that such a scenario could indeed kill off almost
>
Any DSLR system, I just do not see this happening any time soon.
Why would Olympus want to have two competing small camera systems targeted at the same buyers?
The bigger DSLR models will be around for a while longer, but the entry level cameras are soon going to be EVILs.
(Just my opinion, of course.)
I do have an E-420, by the way, and it is a very competent camera that is suitable for serious photography.
But I like the idea of the EVF and the quiet operation.
I also have a couple of lenses, the PanaLeica 14-150 and the Olympus 25mm f/2.8 that will work with the G1's contract detection AF.
If Panasonic and Olympus add a few fast primes for µFT, I will be interested, assuming that the AF, and of course the sensor, are "good enough."
Jeff
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Enough!
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Many pick up the 4x0 as an inexpensive way to buy into 4/3 and the selection of lenses available.
Lenses that, for the most part, won't work quite as well on m43.
And m43 lenses won't work on 4/3, so the upgrade path is a bit rougher.
Or some may pick up the 4x0 as a second, backup body to one of the bigger E's...
Again -full- compatability w all lenses is the important feature here.
So, as long as the 4x0 keeps competitive price wise, I don't see the Pany micro as a threat- each will find it's market and I think overlap will be minimal...
I can see the G1 going to the executive who wants an expensive toy, but doesn't want it to take up much space, while the 4x0 goes to the more serious hobbiest on a limited budget...
But of course I could be way off here :o
I can understand Oly's take on m43- replace the high end compacts, build the lenses once, then upgrade the bodies regularly w/o having to redesign the lens each time, plus they can sell the body w a basic lens, and then sell the more specialized lenses to those who want them...
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Art P
Image control: Zoom out | Zoom 100% | Zoom in | Expand / Contract | New window
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Jeff,
I do not think that these developments will come soon.
Maybe in 5-10 years you will use cameras with EVFs instead of OVF for entry level cameras, however, I do not think that this will happen any sooner.
For example, I have an E-510, however, I would not switch to another system unless it offers several advantages AND it has a lens similar to the 50mm macro (as I use it for about half of my shots).
However, I do not see a similar lens lineup for M43 in the near future.
What happens in 5 years is a different story, however, I am not going to worry about that now.
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The best thing that Panasonic and Olympus could do - and, I suspect, Leica, too, is to share and pool technologies wherever possible.
There are huge threats on the horizon, as Samsung is moving into the market, and Sony is really becoming a factor.
And eventualy, Chinese competitors are sure to enter, too.
With the size of the R&D departments of such giants, and the pace of innovation that more traditional ones like Canon and Nikon are pushing, Olympus and Panasonic cannot afford to keep playing awkward "footsie" with the technologies they share by trying to sell crippled cameras, like Panny"s previous offerings, or by leaving out turnkey technological features, as has been the case in some of OLy's (manual focus confirmation, LV AF, AF on the m4:3 adater).
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erichK
saskatoon, canada
http://erichk.zenfolio.com/
http://www.fototime.com/inv/7F3D846BCD301F3
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Juergen Quote: :
>...I have an E-510, however, I would not switch to another
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System unless it offers several advantages AND it has a lens similar
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To the 50mm macro (as I use it for about half of my shots).
However,
> I do not see a similar lens lineup for M43 in the near future.
A big question about µFT is the quality and variety of the lenses that will be offered for the system.
For example, how will the 14-140 compare with the current 14-150?
My guess is that it will not be as good.
We will probably not see top quality lenses for µFT until Olympus decides that the system is good enough for their higher end camera range, and that will probably not happen soon.
However, I believe that it is easier to make good primes than zooms, so I have some hope to see some of those sooner.
>
What happens in 5 years is a different story, however, I am not going
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To worry about that now.
>...
A very wise decision.
:-)
Jeff
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Enough!
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I would repeat myself ..
The E420 can easily be build with weather sealing, IS in body, and a decent View ( even better than E3 if we allow the size ).
It may require ditching the flash to keep size in check but that is OK.
And BTW, the zoom for the M4/3 are actually significantly smaller than the 4/3 ( even those kit zoom for E420/E520 ) - I say a batter of real quality fix focals is where both of them need ( and pancake is actually not that much a good idea in this case )
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- Franka -
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Juergen Quote: :
>
> Last, does anybody believe Oly could design a regular 4/3 with EVF?
>
> I'd be interested.
>
>
While you could design this, it makes no sense to do so.
If you use
> an EVF then why would you want to have a mirror box?
You may just go
>
To M43 in that case.
>
Because you wouldn't have to wait for a decent lens lineup, and you would have the advantages of an EVF, and lack of mirror.
It's not rocket science.
Am.
--
Photostream: http://www.flickr.com/photos/7689141@N06/
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Quote: :
>
>
Juergen Quote: :
>
> > Last, does anybody believe Oly could design a regular 4/3 with EVF?
>
> > I'd be interested.
>
>
> > While you could design this, it makes no sense to do so.
If you use
> >
An EVF then why would you want to have a mirror box?
You may just go
>
> to M43 in that case.
>
>
> Because you wouldn't have to wait for a decent lens lineup, and you
>
Would have the advantages of an EVF, and lack of mirror.
If you have the "advantage" of lack of mirror, you also have the
problem of focussing the "old" lenses.
Thus your suggestion would have
worse lens choices than µ4/3 (+ added adapter when needed).
>
It's not rocket science.
:-D
Just my two oere
Erik from Sweden
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Oh, I see. And yet in the interviews at PK Olympus declares the CD AF issue can be solved by firmware.
Do you think it not possibile?
If it weren't should, we care at all about µ4/3 but as a secondary system?
Oly after all *is* its terrific lens lineup.
I can see some larger sensor LX3, with a good WA, but it wouldn't replace any Oly camera, not even an E-4X0.
Exactly as was said in the interview.
Am.
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Photostream: http://www.flickr.com/photos/7689141@N06/
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Quote: :
> Many are wondering how the E-420 class of camera can compete against
>
The G1 since the G1 offers near SLR performance in a smaller body
>
With smaller lenses as an advantage.
Obviously something has to
>
Improve in the next iteration of the E-420 so that it is not
>
Clobbered by an avalanche of slr type EVIL cameras, but what?
It's entirely possible that the E-4xx line will disappear completely too.
With price on entry-level DSLRs dropping, and the quantity of features rising, Olympus may just opt for a more affordable E-5xx line with a few upgrades at the bottom of their lineup, with a tweener in the middle and an E-3-style camera at the top.
It's also possible the SLR-type EVIL cameras will remain in a different price bracket entirely, limiting direct competition.
It all depends on how well Panasonic executes, and who ends up following them.
Cheers,
--
MFBernstein
'Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit.' - Ed Abbey
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This will be one area where the G1 will fail for anyone thinking this might be a DSLR replacement.
I like taking my E510 to NHL hockey games, major league baseball and college football, and you need to be able to both focus track while shooting short to long bursts.
The G1 will not be able to keep up here.
The focus tracking may work well, but my question is, what happens to the screen the first time you press the shutter release?
My guess is, you'll lose the ability to follow the subject in the finder for a long enough period of time the EVF will still prove useless for this type of picture taking....actually, any type work that requires this type shooting, like birds in flight, children playing in the yard, etc., etc..
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The Fourthirds (E) line has a complete lens collection [nt]
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