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My opinion on my canon 20D vs. Nikon D60: Nikon D80 - D40 Forum: Digital Photography Review
I bought my Nikon D60 about 2 months ago from B&H.
It feels great in my hands and takes awesome pics.
The only thing I didn't like about it is the "slow" fps compared to other "higher end" DSLRs and the lack of a top control panel.
Everything else about the camera is great.
I bought a used canon 20D that had less than 5K actuations from a personal friend approximately 1 month ago.
It was so cheap that I couldn't pass up the deal.
I wanted to use this camera for "sports" photography since I race on occasion and I love to photograph my little 3 year old when he's riding his bike outside.
Anyhow, I brought my canon 20d and Nikon D60 to chuck e cheese for my son's 3rd bday party 2 weeks ago.
My cousin let me use his canon 530ex flash and took a ton of pics.
I ended up taking over 200 pics, and only 30 came out decent.
The other 170 pics were just plain garbage.
The lens I was using was 17-85IS, 18-55IS, and Sigma 28-200 (horrible lens in my opinion).
Now I take blame for not having the correct settings at all times, whether it be the wrong ISO, exposure, etc etc.
Granted I kept the camera on "P" most of the time, to let the camera choose its own settings for shutter speed and aperture.
I also don't care for the user interface, and that point is not based on owning the Nikon D60.
I then used the Nikon D60 and took approximately 100-150 pics.
I'd say at least 80% of the pics came out crystal clear, awesome colors, just overall nice pics.
I also kept the camera in "P" mode most of the time.
I found it weird that an advanced level DSLR didn't take as good of pics as my "entry level" D60.
I admit, if I were to spend more time with the settings on the Canon 20D, I would have obtained the same or possibly better quality of pics vs.
My D60. When I was outside with my son a few days ago, I used my canon 55-350IS lens on the 20D, took the time to work the settings, and the pics came out great.
In my opinion, if you have the time to mess with the settings for every situation you're in, the 20D will take awesome pics.
If you're like me, and don't have time to fiddle around with the settings, get the D60.
Bottom-line, I'm selling my 20D and keeping the D60.
I returned the canon 55-250IS and bought a cheapie Sigma 70-300 and even I'm impressed with the quality of pics I'm getting with this lens.
I've returned 3 lens the past 2 weeks.
Looks like the Sigma is a keeper.
I'll wait for the D90 to upgrade :)
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The upside to the D60 is that it has amazing IQ and can deal with amny Auto settings.
Pretty much like any Nikon camera.
But the downside is that the D60 does not have AF drive, dedicated buttons, small viewfinder, bracketing and so on.
From which the AF drive is the biggest...
So if you get the D80 you have Nikon with all the options.
Nice, eh?
And for people that do not want to change settings, a point and shoot camera will do a better job than a DSLR.
The new Panasonic with new 24-60mm f2.0-2.8 lens is interesting to say.
--
Image control: Zoom out | Zoom 100% | Zoom in | Expand / Contract | New window
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I was considering buying the D80, but I think I'll wait till the end of the year to make a decision.
I'm thinking there's a D90 comin' up soon.
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When fps and low light focusing is out of the equation my
Nikon D40 consistenly outperforms my canon 40D for focus accuracy
as well as getting the exposure right the first time in difficult lighting
and when using a flash
it is no contest the Nikon handily outperforms my 40D
I am using the SB-600 on the Nikon and 580ex II on the Canon
and dont let the fps get you down it is is better to have 3 shots per second
turn out good that have 6 per second and only have a couple of them good
Use the camera that gets you the shots it is really that simple
you can have the supposed best camera out but if you dont get teh results
you want then it is not really the best where your concerned
you should not have to fight with your gear to get the results you expect
I am about at the point of selling all my canon gear and moving back to nikon for
this very issue ( poor AF consistency )
Quote: :
>
I bought my Nikon D60 about 2 months ago from B&H.
It feels great in
>
My hands and takes awesome pics.
The only thing I didn't like about
>
It is the "slow" fps compared to other "higher end" DSLRs and the
>
Lack of a top control panel.
Everything else about the camera is
>
Great.
>
> I bought a used canon 20D that had less than 5K actuations from a
>
Personal friend approximately 1 month ago.
It was so cheap that I
>
Couldn't pass up the deal.
I wanted to use this camera for "sports"
>
Photography since I race on occasion and I love to photograph my
>
Little 3 year old when he's riding his bike outside.
>
>
Anyhow, I brought my canon 20d and Nikon D60 to chuck e cheese for my
>
Son's 3rd bday party 2 weeks ago.
My cousin let me use his canon
>
530ex flash and took a ton of pics.
I ended up taking over 200 pics,
>
And only 30 came out decent.
The other 170 pics were just plain
>
Garbage. The lens I was using was 17-85IS, 18-55IS, and Sigma 28-200
>
(horrible lens in my opinion).
Now I take blame for not having the
>
Correct settings at all times, whether it be the wrong ISO, exposure,
>
Etc etc. Granted I kept the camera on "P" most of the time, to let
>
The camera choose its own settings for shutter speed and aperture.
I
> also don't care for the user interface, and that point is not based
>
On owning the Nikon D60.
>
>
I then used the Nikon D60 and took approximately 100-150 pics.
I'd
> say at least 80% of the pics came out crystal clear, awesome colors,
>
Just overall nice pics.
I also kept the camera in "P" mode most of
>
The time.
>
>
I found it weird that an advanced level DSLR didn't take as good of
>
Pics as my "entry level" D60.
I admit, if I were to spend more time
>
With the settings on the Canon 20D, I would have obtained the same or
>
Possibly better quality of pics vs.
My D60. When I was outside with
>
My son a few days ago, I used my canon 55-350IS lens on the 20D, took
>
The time to work the settings, and the pics came out great.
>
>
In my opinion, if you have the time to mess with the settings for
>
Every situation you're in, the 20D will take awesome pics.
If you're
> like me, and don't have time to fiddle around with the settings, get
>
The D60.
>
>
Bottom-line, I'm selling my 20D and keeping the D60.
I returned the
>
Canon 55-250IS and bought a cheapie Sigma 70-300 and even I'm
>
Impressed with the quality of pics I'm getting with this lens.
I've
> returned 3 lens the past 2 weeks.
Looks like the Sigma is a keeper.
>
>
I'll wait for the D90 to upgrade :)
--
Mac OS X: Because making UNIX user friendly was easier than fixing Windows.
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Quote: :
> when fps and low light focusing is out of the equation my
>
Nikon D40 consistenly outperforms my canon 40D for focus accuracy
>
As well as getting the exposure right the first time in difficult
>
Lighting
> and when using a flash
>
It is no contest the Nikon handily outperforms my 40D
>
I am using the SB-600 on the Nikon and 580ex II on the Canon
>
>
And dont let the fps get you down it is is better to have 3 shots per
>
Second
> turn out good that have 6 per second and only have a couple of them good
>
>
Use the camera that gets you the shots it is really that simple
>
You can have the supposed best camera out but if you dont get teh
>
Results
> you want then it is not really the best where your concerned
>
>
You should not have to fight with your gear to get the results you
>
Expect
>
> I am about at the point of selling all my canon gear and moving back
>
To nikon for
>
This very issue ( poor AF consistency )
>
>
>
>
Quote: :
> >
I bought my Nikon D60 about 2 months ago from B&H.
It feels great in
>
> my hands and takes awesome pics.
The only thing I didn't like about
>
> it is the "slow" fps compared to other "higher end" DSLRs and the
>
> lack of a top control panel.
Everything else about the camera is
>
> great.
> >
>
> I bought a used canon 20D that had less than 5K actuations from a
>
> personal friend approximately 1 month ago.
It was so cheap that I
>
> couldn't pass up the deal.
I wanted to use this camera for "sports"
>
> photography since I race on occasion and I love to photograph my
>
> little 3 year old when he's riding his bike outside.
>
>
> > Anyhow, I brought my canon 20d and Nikon D60 to chuck e cheese for my
>
> son's 3rd bday party 2 weeks ago.
My cousin let me use his canon
>
> 530ex flash and took a ton of pics.
I ended up taking over 200 pics,
>
> and only 30 came out decent.
The other 170 pics were just plain
>
> garbage. The lens I was using was 17-85IS, 18-55IS, and Sigma 28-200
>
> (horrible lens in my opinion).
Now I take blame for not having the
>
> correct settings at all times, whether it be the wrong ISO, exposure,
>
> etc etc. Granted I kept the camera on "P" most of the time, to let
>
> the camera choose its own settings for shutter speed and aperture.
I
> > also don't care for the user interface, and that point is not based
>
> on owning the Nikon D60.
>
>
> > I then used the Nikon D60 and took approximately 100-150 pics.
I'd
> > say at least 80% of the pics came out crystal clear, awesome colors,
>
> just overall nice pics.
I also kept the camera in "P" mode most of
>
> the time.
>
>
> > I found it weird that an advanced level DSLR didn't take as good of
>
> pics as my "entry level" D60.
I admit, if I were to spend more time
>
> with the settings on the Canon 20D, I would have obtained the same or
>
> possibly better quality of pics vs.
My D60. When I was outside with
>
> my son a few days ago, I used my canon 55-350IS lens on the 20D, took
>
> the time to work the settings, and the pics came out great.
>
>
> > In my opinion, if you have the time to mess with the settings for
>
> every situation you're in, the 20D will take awesome pics.
If you're
> >
Like me, and don't have time to fiddle around with the settings, get
>
> the D60.
>
>
> > Bottom-line, I'm selling my 20D and keeping the D60.
I returned the
>
> canon 55-250IS and bought a cheapie Sigma 70-300 and even I'm
>
> impressed with the quality of pics I'm getting with this lens.
I've
> > returned 3 lens the past 2 weeks.
Looks like the Sigma is a keeper.
>
>
> > I'll wait for the D90 to upgrade :)
>
>
--
> Mac OS X: Because making UNIX user friendly was easier than fixing
>
Windows.
HI, have you still been having problems with the 4D?
:S
Btw, i'm considering the Nikon D40 too, how much good is the focus accuray is it that good?
Like always spot on?
:D
--
http://www.pbase.com/jdf
(Pbase supporter)
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Aaron,
I totally agree with you.
You seem to have the same exact problems I've been having.
I hate having to fiddle around with the settings on the canon.
I love how my D60 takes great pics right away.
Your point of view on the frame right is spot on.
So the 20D, 30D, and 40D all have focus issues?
Wow, that would explain why the pics I've been taking with the Canon aren't always that clear.
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> HI, have you still been having problems with the 4D?
:S
>
> Btw, i'm considering the Nikon D40 too, how much good is the focus
>
Accuray is it that good?
Like always spot on?
:D
> --
>
>
Http://www.pbase.com/jdf
>
(Pbase supporter)
Yea I have had my 40D and 70-200L 2.8 non-IS back from service for a couple of weeks now and I'm still seeing some back focusing a bit
when doing sports and shooting bursts of 4 to 6 shots at a time it still never seems to get the majority of them sharp I can deal with a couple of them
being off but when 4 out of 6 or 3 out of 5 are a tad soft it is frustrating
to your second question about the focus accuracy on the Nikon D40 IMHO
yes it is spot on ( at least when used with simular lenses )
it is not fair to compare the Nikon with inferior glass on it
but when the glass is apples to apples on both bodies
I can get way more keepers with the D40 70-200VR
than I can get with the 40D 70-200L 2.8 combo
others millage may vary
When I rented the 70-200VR and used it on that body
even when shooting wide open it was nailing the focus every time
only time it ever missed it that I could tell is when I screwed up
and the focus point was off the subject but even then it was
sharp where the focus point was no front or back focus at all
it nailed it
with the D40 combo I can easily get 80 - 85% or more keepers
with the 40D combo I am feeling pretty good if I even get 50% keepers
I really like the 40D if it wasn't for the very inconsistent AF
but the 6fps is worthless on my combo
I am actually thinking of selling all the canon gear and going minimal on the nikon body
maybe a used D200 or D80 and put the majority of the money into good glass
I have shot Nikon in the past and present ( D40 ) before moving to Canon
and allthough I did have some issues with my old D70 AF has never been a problem
that I have every had when shooting with Nikons and it seems to be a consistent
problem on almost every Canon that I have had with the possible exception
of the 300D go figure
I tested out the D300 for a good 30 minutes or so the other day in the store
and it looks to be a great camera but there were some things with the nikons that I dont like
just one example is on the C1, C2, & C3 settings on the 40d dail are very usefull
and very fast to get to to change from one setting mode to another
I have mine setup to do sports on the C3 setting with Medium jpg "AV" mode with aperture set to go to f:4.0 when I first go to C3 on the dial and it is also set to Ai-Servo and continous drive with center focus point
then I have C1 set to shoot Raw+jpg and to do single shot AF in "av" set to go right to 7.0
It is very fast going from one to the other
and if I every get caught up in the action and forget how my settings are
it is as simple as moving that dial away and then back to C3 and I'm immediately
back to my default sports mode and it only take me a split second to do that
I wish the d300 would do that without having to go into the menus
since allthough that is fast it is not nearly as fast as having it on a dial
and I will also miss the rear dail as well
I find it is much easier to use the rear dial on the Canon's since it is where
my thumb rests all the time anyway
I can get used to either system at this piont I just need one that works
and so far that seems to be my lowly D40 with good glass on it
--
Mac OS X: Because making UNIX user friendly was easier than fixing Windows.
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|
Quote: :
>
>
> HI, have you still been having problems with the 4D?
:S
> >
>
> Btw, i'm considering the Nikon D40 too, how much good is the focus
>
> accuray is it that good?
Like always spot on?
:D
> > --
>
>
> > http://www.pbase.com/jdf
>
> (Pbase supporter)
>
>
Yea I have had my 40D and 70-200L 2.8 non-IS back from service for a
>
Couple of weeks now and I'm still seeing some back focusing a bit
>
When doing sports and shooting bursts of 4 to 6 shots at a time it
>
Still never seems to get the majority of them sharp I can deal with
>
A couple of them
>
Being off but when 4 out of 6 or 3 out of 5 are a tad soft it is
>
Frustrating
>
>
To your second question about the focus accuracy on the Nikon D40 IMHO
>
Yes it is spot on ( at least when used with simular lenses )
>
It is not fair to compare the Nikon with inferior glass on it
>
But when the glass is apples to apples on both bodies
>
I can get way more keepers with the D40 70-200VR
>
Than I can get with the 40D 70-200L 2.8 combo
>
Others millage may vary
>
>
>
When I rented the 70-200VR and used it on that body
>
Even when shooting wide open it was nailing the focus every time
>
Only time it ever missed it that I could tell is when I screwed up
>
And the focus point was off the subject but even then it was
>
Sharp where the focus point was no front or back focus at all
>
It nailed it
>
>
With the D40 combo I can easily get 80 - 85% or more keepers
>
With the 40D combo I am feeling pretty good if I even get 50% keepers
>
I really like the 40D if it wasn't for the very inconsistent AF
>
But the 6fps is worthless on my combo
>
>
I am actually thinking of selling all the canon gear and going
>
Minimal on the nikon body
>
Maybe a used D200 or D80 and put the majority of the money into good
>
Glass
> I have shot Nikon in the past and present ( D40 ) before moving to Canon
>
And allthough I did have some issues with my old D70 AF has never
>
Been a problem
>
That I have every had when shooting with Nikons and it seems to be a
>
Consistent
> problem on almost every Canon that I have had with the possible
>
Exception
> of the 300D go figure
>
>
I tested out the D300 for a good 30 minutes or so the other day in
>
The store
> and it looks to be a great camera but there were some things with the
>
Nikons that I dont like
>
Just one example is on the C1, C2, & C3 settings on the 40d dail are
>
Very usefull
>
And very fast to get to to change from one setting mode to another
>
I have mine setup to do sports on the C3 setting with Medium jpg "AV"
>
Mode with aperture set to go to f:4.0 when I first go to C3 on the
>
Dial and it is also set to Ai-Servo and continous drive with center
>
Focus point
> then I have C1 set to shoot Raw+jpg and to do single shot AF in "av"
>
Set to go right to 7.0
>
>
It is very fast going from one to the other
>
And if I every get caught up in the action and forget how my settings
>
Are
> it is as simple as moving that dial away and then back to C3 and I'm
>
Immediately
> back to my default sports mode and it only take me a split second to
>
Do that
> I wish the d300 would do that without having to go into the menus
>
Since allthough that is fast it is not nearly as fast as having it on
>
A dial
> and I will also miss the rear dail as well
>
I find it is much easier to use the rear dial on the Canon's since
>
It is where
> my thumb rests all the time anyway
>
>
I can get used to either system at this piont I just need one that works
>
And so far that seems to be my lowly D40 with good glass on it
>
>
>
--
> Mac OS X: Because making UNIX user friendly was easier than fixing
>
Windows.
Hi, nice input :D tanks
yes it's a bit odd what you have been going trough with the 40D, i have one myself and have taken some AIservo photos with it (plains/cars) along with a 70-200 F4L and been quite successful with my combo, i know you must think this is a 40D problem, but i seriously consider that it could be that canon just made a mess with your copy of the body/lens.
I have been considering the Nikon D40 because it's so cheap, and i have a certain curiosity of having a nikon, and how well a basic camera like the D40 can put up against a more expensive one (AF/Exposure/WB).
My Canon 40D, has been a good player so far, so i really can not say anything about it.
The other day i played with a D300, wow...it's a big step up in body quality...the feel is just great, and the AF is very secure!
We can feel it very firmly locking on, and this has been my experience with nikon cameras.
Maybe their Af is better overall?
I know for certain canon does F/2.8 sensible sensors...but in practice things are not always as good as stated.
It's a pity you can not get a new 40D to see if it can be better, do you have anyone that you can compare the performance between cameras?
That would be ideal!
If you have anything to add to the Nikon D40 please do :D
King Regards
JDF
--
http://www.pbase.com/jdf
(Pbase supporter)
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Two things.
Nikon flash system ROCKS.
Canon's does not :)
D60 and 20D are different classes of camera.
20D (and canon in general, for that matter) are geared for a slightly more neutral output - this means flatter colours and the pics don't jump out at you.
Not until you hit PS at least.
Nikon D40/60 are much more consumer friendly in this regard.
Pics are nice and clean and bright straight out of the camera...
Which is how is should be for this class of camera.
People buying a D40/60 generally aren't the type to spend hours in PS - they just want to take a decent shot and show all the other mums at the next soccer meet (heh, I own a D60 too so don't take offence).
It's a hard comparison given the different classes of camera...
But given flash is of consideration and decent shots straight out of the camera are what you want (no tinkering involved)...
Then yes, you made the right call :)
--
Forever in training
(see profile for gear)
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I totally understand that the D60 and Canon 20D are different classes of cameras.
I'm starting to wonder if the 20D I had some focusing issues.
I used some good quality glass on it and my D60 still developed clearer/sharper pics.
I still think the 20D produced better colors compared to my D60.
I cranked up the saturation on my D60 and the 20D still produced more vivid colors at a moderate setting.
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Quote: :
> when fps and low light focusing is out of the equation my
>
Nikon D40 consistenly outperforms my canon 40D for focus accuracy
>
As well as getting the exposure right the first time in difficult lighting
>
And when using a flash it is no contest
I had a two day event and on first day accidentally left SD on reader so I was forced to use 40D all the time.
It was a lowlight event and I brought the 'ultimate efs' 17-55 is with me.
Result: too embarassed to admit that I end up with very little keeper at all.
Nevermind the PP required to get WB back, but so many blurry or oof pics ?
The next day I took d40 + 17-50 ...
Still end up with artistically challenged pics - but there are at least 90% perfectly usable jpegs to choose from, with no complain on color or exposure whatsoever.
I'd really like to keep 40d with all its features : working auto iso, live view that i can actually get focused shot (and metered =) using nikon's 55/1.2 thin dof, clean high iso, some fun with dem fps, canon's first 'true' quiet shutter, etc.
The ideal prosumer that imho should've came from nikon.
Canon also cleverly put iso button right next to shutter where you can dial from auto to hi without taking your eyes or hands from current position, or worse without browsing through menu.
But the AF drove me nuts: I can manage to miss focus with freshly calibrated 70-200 ??
>
I am about at the point of selling all my canon gear and moving back
>
To nikon for this very issue ( poor AF consistency )
Went thorugh pains with 350d and 20d, and back to d50/40, then really hoped 'pro af sensor' inside 40d delivers ...
Well, those great 40d pic galleries made me wonder of bad copies, either that or it could be that those bodies were able to detect hands that touches nikon before.
:-?
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Use a focus chart.
Nikon used to have a problem with focus on D70.
Now it seems that it is solved.
See here: http://focustestchart.com/chart.html
--
Victor
Bucuresti, Romania
http://s106.photobucket.com/albums/m268/victor_petcu/
http://picasaweb.google.com/teodor.nitica/
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Quote: :
> I still think the 20D produced better colors compared to my D60.
I
> cranked up the saturation on my D60 and the 20D still produced more
>
Vivid colors at a moderate setting.
Resulting pics from canon are really something, especially if you need to 'boost' later on.
I noticed I can bring out shadows wihout adding much noise (esp on 20d).
40d is a bit noisier, but the details are so unbelievable, even at 3200.
However, reading Aaron's post is a big deja vu : my part was problems with 20D (slow 24-85 and 24 fix), mostly better behaved 300d and 10d, then 40d that stutters with fast zooms.
While with d50/80, when you point the center af box to something, it simply just locks.
To be fair I had quite a headache with d200, ime the only nikon with 40d-like af.
;-)
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Why do you want a D90?
Its an advanced armature camera and will require making an effort to get good results.
Morris
--
Image control: Zoom out | Zoom 100% | Zoom in | Expand / Contract | New window
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Quote: :
> If you have anything to add to the Nikon D40 please do :D
Lens suggestion: D40 +18-135 kit as ultimate walkaround p&s.
One big problem is justifying nikon's 17-55 in front of a d40.
:D
For indoor I'm totally satisfied with tamron 17-50 (with motor).
For dimmer light you can use sigma 30/1.4 (if you can stand 10-20% oof pics).
Either 70-300vr or sigma 50-150 for longer reach and there's also 105vr.
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Shame on you Morris (:D)
Quote: :
>
Why do you want a D90?
Its an advanced armature camera and will
>
Require making an effort to get good results.
>
>
Morris
>
> --
>
Image control: Zoom out | Zoom 100% | Zoom in | Expand / Contract | New window
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