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Murdering a Rodent...? - DUNGEONS & DRAGONS ONLINE: Stormreach Forums
Alright, I've tried to do some searches on google and so forth, but I would like some up front opinions.
My younger sister has a hamster that unfortunately is dying.
With a suggest from my father he says to stick the hamster in a bag and let it die, stick it back in the cage and when my sister wakes up will think it died because of its illness.
However I'm one of those people...
Who can't do that.
I know that if you for example get an overdose of carbon monoxide you basically get tired and fall asleep and die because of no oxygen, so it's not exactly painful...but then again being in a bag of air and dying, I'm not sure if that's equivalent.
So that's my question...
Would being tied in a bag and losing oxygen, be the same as a carbon monoxide death?
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That poor poor hamster...
But no, suffocation and CO poisoning are NOT the same thing.
Suffocation has you gasping for air, and would likely be rather unpleasant to say the least.
Get it euthanized at your local vet if you've decided its time.
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I hit rodents with a large greataxe...or possibly finger of death...depends what character Im on.
As for your hamster, take it to the vet man.
If its time to go put it to sleep...dont go whacking on it or suffocating it...jeesh.
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Well thats the problem, I would take it to the vet, but as a college student i really don't have the funds to drop 100 bucks on the hamster after paying the school all im worth in out of state tuition, and it being her hamster doesn't want it dead (its her first pet...)
And parents don't want to spend 100 bucks either on putting it down.
We were hit with Ike so we're not necessarily in the best situation, (i know not an excuse), but I guess i'll call every vet in this area to ask if they could be kind enough to donate a needle and some drops of liquid to euthanize the hamster.
I love animals very much, so I would never kill one, I've literally had or "owned" animals since I was born, so they're my soft spot.
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Just curious, can't you let nature take its course or is it suffering?
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Well I guess I can relay the whole story.
She's a cute pancake golden hamster, and my sister named it after me....eh...which i changed it's name to pancake...
Well it was fine, and then one day my sister showed me her, and it wasn't fat anymore, and it had poor balance and everything.
It has diarrhea and its green (ew) which means basically that it's not digesting properly, and she's losing fluid.
So I bought what is it called...pedialyte?
That stuff that basically replenishes missing nutrients.
It's made for babies and little children and some where on some hamster site i read that it's okay for a small mammal.
I basically intimidated my sister with a speech along the lines of "It's going to die in a few days" or something she's 10 by the way....
I looked it up and the hamster might have something called "wet-tail" I'm not sure, since i haven't been to a vet with it i really dont know.
But I can't afford a vet.
I have a dog and two cats under my belt that I basically give my last penny to, and spent 300 bucks about a week ago (time for a diet of ramen noodles....) on my dogs vet bill.
And Ike didn't help anybody, and for those who dont know Ike was the hurricane that hit texas not too long ago.
So this hamster is suffering (in my opinion).
We changed it to an aquarium instead of the small hamster cage, i make my sister wash off the hamster if it's soiled sometimes several times a day, change the shavings so it doesn't have any fecal matter on it, and try to keep it clean as possible.
But like i said, we really can't afford a vet bill.
Which is why as i said im going to have to call all these vets for one that will euthanize it for free...
Little pancake isn't even a year old Not sure what happened, i used to have gerbils and hamsters when i was a kid, one of them even had babies and they all lived completely healthy (until a certain mom took the cage out of my room when i was at school and went to pick me up and there were dead hamsters when i got home because the dog thought they were play things) *Sob*
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When a body gets low on oxygen, heart rate and respiration increase to compensate then fear/stress at what is happening set in to accelerate the process of oxygen depletion.
Unconsciousness occurs then death.
If you pipe car exhaust into your lungs the following occurs as the carbon monoxide displaces the oxygen in your blood.
coughing
headache
shortness of breath
dizziness
fatigue
mental confusion and difficulty thinking
loss of fine hand-eye coordination
nausea and vomiting
rapid heart rate
hallucinations
inability to execute voluntary movements accurately
collapse
lowered body temperature (hypothermia)
coma
convulsions
seriously low blood pressure
cardiac and respiratory failure
death
It would appear that a lack of oxygen would be a more humane way to end a creatures suffering than stuffing it in a car tailpipe.
Or you could take it to the vet and they will give it a shot.
End of story.
Of course, I am in no way advocating the execution of small furry animals (I like small furry animals), merely providing information to the OP.
*Edit* Man!
I type WAYYY too slow apparently.
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Okay, maybe people are misunderstanding me.
Lol I wasn't suggesting of sticking the thing into car muffler, smacking it, shooting it, casting destruction or finger of death or any other means of killing it.
The monoxide was just something i could think of off the top of my head for oxygen depletion to relate to stuffing it in a bag (again i would never do).
I was told by a biology teacher last year that people who stick their generators in the garage end up getting carbon monoxide poisoning and because of that basically get fatigue all of a sudden and fall asleep and never wake up.
So i was just asking for either a scientific or opinionated point of view.
Basically if sticking it in a bag would cause pain or anything, i would prefer to convince my father to give me time to try to call around vets and ask if they can quickly euthanize it for free.
(which would take time because we as individuals are busy) Granted my dad doesn't live here, so it would be up to my mom but still trying to buy time.
But after the first response it made it clear that the bag idea was bad.
once again, im not sticking any animal into anything to kill it, beating it with anything, or killing it in anyway...
*edit* as in you were going to be the first response then after your finished result there were 5 other posts in front of yours?
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I used to euthanize rats for research.
Unfortunately, most of the methods we used are not suitable for use at home (halothane, sedatives, guillotine, etc).
The only one I can think of that might work is dry ice (CO2) in a container.
Basically it's doing the same thing as your bag solution, but quicker.
It works, but still not easy to get completely right at home either.
here's what I found doing a quick google search on it.
It's similar to the dry ice method, but uses baking soda and vinegar to generate the CO2.
http://www.ratfanclub.org/euth.html
excerpt
"The only humane ways to euthanize a rat at home without veterinary help are with carbon dioxide (CO2) or nitrous oxide.
Euthanasia with CO2 is approved by the American Veterinary Medical Association (AVMA).
Concentrated CO2 is a central nervous system depressant and actually causes anesthesia.
You know how you yawn when you’re sleepy?
This is the body’s way of getting rid of excess carbon dioxide in your system which is making you sleepy.
CO2 does not cause suffocation.
The rat will be able to breathe normally, will become anesthetized and will then die.
The key to using CO2 humanely is its concentration.
The normal concentration of CO2 in the air is only 0.038%.
According to the 2000 Report of the AVMA Panel on Euthanasia, breathing concentrations of 7.5% increases the pain threshold, and concentrations of 30-40% cause anesthesia (unconsciousness) within 1-2 minutes.
However, concentrations of 50% or higher irritate the eyes and respiratory tract and cause pain.
Your goal is to create a concentration of 30-40% CO2 and hold it there until the rat is unconscious."
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I dont like to see animals suffer but in this case Id say you only have 2 choices:
1 - feed him rose petals.
For some reason it seems to kill them (maybe all the chemicals you find typically on a store bought rose)
2- make him as comfortable as possible.
Place his food closer to him and change the wood chip bedding to shredded news paper.
He will pass soon enuff.
Caring for him and giving him a funeral in the end will teach your little sib a valuable life lesson dont hide death from her, it only makes it harder to handle later in life.
Sadly, many store bought pets are purchased in poor health because of the conditions they endured before you bought them.
Its really just a question of how much damage has been done before you put your money on the counter.
Pet shops tend to restock monthly ask them what week they expect new animals and buy that week for a better chance.
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Because it is Ike related, call around.
There may be a vet or even a humane society around you that would be willing to treat it for free.
Other wise, instead of using a car to let it breath die, you could always put a candel in the aquarium, light it.
Wait for the candle to put itself out from using up the O2 around it flooding the aquarium with the CO2.
Still...
I'd be more hoping for luck with my first suggestion.
My condolences.
I don't know much about rodents..
But something in my past also makes me remember something about them also sleeping in their food and that is a bad thing.
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Put the cage into a freezer, as it body temperature falls, bodily functions will slow and the hamster goes into hibernation.
The only difference is the temperature will continue to lower until it crosses the threshold point and death occurs as all functions stop
pros: when an animal hibernates, bodily functions are so slow that all the senses are reduced/numbed, meaning its less likely to feel pain/discomfort
cons: stinky freezer
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-oopps it posted this one and the one below it twice..so i'll just add this instead of leaving it that way-
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Well so far Krud's response, in addition to all suggestions of euthanization would be the best ones.
Lol sorry Aranticus, I dont think i'm going to be sticking it into the freezer, although eventually it will go numb, it would bother me to eat something from the freezer after that, plus I'd feel bad for it going cold and shivering in there.
And in response to captain1z i actually did read up on that, how stores get these rodents in mass quantities or what not, and they're stressed because of the move, and conditions, and a new environment and what have you.
But i assume she would be okay because my sister has had her for a year now.
And her illness came about VERY quickly.
She was fine 3 days ago, 2 days ago she all of a sudden was seeming less fat, yesterday she was wobbly and disoriented, and today she's the same, except that we bought some small things for her.
We got our power back about a week ago, and i'm unsure if something in the air got to her or whatnot when the windows were open.
It was actually VERY VERY humid the night after ike.
So i'm really not sure whats going on.
A note to missing minds, lol im not goign to stick her in a muffler or beat it, or shoot it or anything.
I think i was being misunderstood when i compared carbon monoxide to losing oxygen in a bag.
I was asking for whats the difference since as i posted before, its the only source that i know of since people who suffocate usually dont come back to life to tell the tale of "how it feels to die with your head in a plastic bag".
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Here's another link describing the baking soda/vinegar method.
There is also a link to it within the previous page I cited.
The pictures and setup are a bit clearer.
http://www.alysion.org/euthanasia/
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Last but not least, give it an injection of a highly concentrated NaCl/KCl solution.
Stops the heart. works on humans at least not too sure about rodents
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Send the hampster to me my boa needs a night time snack.
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Quote: : Send the hampster to me my boa needs a night time snack.
After hes done, send the boa to me, i need a new belt
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Lol nice comments on the chain mouse to boa to belt.
Thanks everyone for helping out I really appreciate everyone taking their time to try to give me answers.
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Is a cinder block out of the question?
I heard an interview with a carbomb victim and he said all he remembers is a flashing light and then he woke up in the hospital.
I mean, as long as your aim is steady, one clean hit would be the quickest and least stressful for the little guy, even if it is the most brutal.
I'm assuming you want to make it easiest for him, right?
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